topic RE: How to set Decipher to extract value from top/bottom/left/right of header? in Product Forum

How to set Decipher to extract value from top/bottom/left/right of header?

Tejaskumar_Darji — Mon, 29 Nov 2021 19:25:00 GMT

Hello,

How to set Decipher to extract value from top/bottom/left/right of a header?

Is there any property that I can set here at field level because sometimes what happens is Decipher picks value from the bottom instead of the right side because to me whatever is nearby to header Decipher considers it as value.

This happens even after training and pointing the region multiple times.

So looking for solutions to solidify the results.

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Thanks & Regards,
Tejaskumar Darji
Sr. RPA Consultant-Automation Developer
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RE: How to set Decipher to extract value from top/bottom/left/right of header?

Ben.Lyons1 — Tue, 30 Nov 2021 08:14:00 GMT

Hi Tejaskumar,

Is this query linked to your other question? They sound similar

Thanks

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Ben Lyons
Product Consultant
Blue Prism
UK
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RE: How to set Decipher to extract value from top/bottom/left/right of header?

Tejaskumar_Darji — Tue, 30 Nov 2021 13:44:00 GMT

Somewhat similar but the scenario is different.

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Thanks & Regards,
Tejaskumar Darji
Sr. RPA Consultant-Automation Developer
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RE: How to set Decipher to extract value from top/bottom/left/right of header?

Vinod1234 — Wed, 23 Feb 2022 13:38:00 GMT

Hi Tejas,

Did you find the solution for this?

Regards,
Vinod kumar

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vinod kumar
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RE: How to set Decipher to extract value from top/bottom/left/right of header?

Ben.Lyons1 — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 09:39:00 GMT

Hi Vinod,

There is no need to specify the location of the header, Decipher will look in all positions.

If there's an issue of conflicting headers (e.g. multiple uses of the header Date), Decipher can learn the correct location or if possible it would be better to use a more specific header.

Thanks

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Ben Lyons
Product Consultant - Decipher Specialist
Blue Prism
UK
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RE: How to set Decipher to extract value from top/bottom/left/right of header?

til.minet — Tue, 29 Mar 2022 14:19:00 GMT

Hello everyone,

we just got our instance of Decipher running since a few days and I am experimenting with the first document type. Glad that I found this thread, as I encounter the same issue Tejaskumar brought up.

I have a simple form providing bank account data. Every field is correctly caught by Decipher except for "Land:", as seen in below example.

I tried to train this document type dozens of times with slight variations but the error persists. The field "Land:" has the supposed value "Deutschland", but Decipher would always look down to the next header "Kontoverbindung" first, instead of using "Deutschland". I even tried to forbid "Kontoverbindung" by putting this word in the DFD in the "Exclude Values"-column - which seems to have no effect at all.

Which makes me even more mad: If I try Decipher on documents that have a different value like "DE" oder "Niedersachsen" then Decipher correctly identifies the value.

@Ben.Lyons1, in your last post you described a solution which refers to using different headers. I don't think that answer is related to what Tejaskumar and I are experiencing. We would need a solution that steers Decipher to prefere the direction "right first" instead of "bottom first". Is there any way to achieve this?

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Til Minet
RPA Developer
EWE AG Germany
Oldenburg
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RE: How to set Decipher to extract value from top/bottom/left/right of header?

Ben.Lyons1 — Wed, 30 Mar 2022 07:34:00 GMT

Hi Til,

There's no way to specifically tell what direction for Decipher to look in, but training of the particular document layout should effectively train the correct location.

However, other things you can try in this situation is adding "Kontoverbindung" to excluded values for the field. This should get Decipher to ignore it, though it may not result in Decipher picking the correct value.

If the potential values for "land" are limited in any way, you could provide values to the options parameter e.g.

You shouldn't need to select any additional flags, unless you want the field to appear as a dropdown box (selectable).

Let me know how you get on.

Thanks

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Ben Lyons
Senior Product Specialist - Decipher
Blue Prism
UK based
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RE: How to set Decipher to extract value from top/bottom/left/right of header?

til.minet — Thu, 31 Mar 2022 15:38:00 GMT

Hi Ben,

Thanks for your reply!

After 4 more batches with around 15 documents each I get the feeling, that Decipher has a specific problem with the word "Deutschland". As soon as the field "Land:" has a value that is not "Deutschland" I get a match. If the value consists of "Deutschland" and some other text Decipher would only return part of the field and exclude "Deutschland".

The error with a match for "Kontoverbindung", which is a different header, persists even though I excluded the value "Kontoverbindung" in the DFD.

In my case it would be an option to make "Deutschland" the default value or even use a list of possible values. But nonetheless - I find this behaviour very interesting and am worried that I encounter such behaviour again in a different DFD where I can not use a workaround.

Look at below examples:

First of all - that's how I excluded "Kontoverbindung" from the values. Sidenote: "Deutschland" is not excluded.

That's what's Decipher thinks of my intention. The capture stage was definitely done after the DFD config was saved. This is reproducable.

This happens regularly... I've got plenty of those.

Land is written as "Country / state" - only the state is matched. Even though the region includes "Deutschland".

Different format, same behaviour. No Germans allowed in here. 😉

Land is "DE" - perfect match

Land is "Deutschland" - Sometimes it's just no match at all. If I point at the right region Decipher has no problem to identify the text, though it's written rather small.

State as given value - match.

Handwritten form - Decipher would hit the right region

Can you explain that behaviour?

Best regards
Til

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Til Minet
RPA Developer
EWE AG Germany
Oldenburg
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RE: How to set Decipher to extract value from top/bottom/left/right of header?

Ben.Lyons1 — Fri, 01 Apr 2022 09:16:00 GMT

Hi Til,

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

May I ask what version of Decipher are you using and what languages/locales have you got set in the Batch Type and Document Type?

There were some language packs missing from v1.2 and this could be the issue. These have been resolved in v2.1.

Thanks

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Ben Lyons
Senior Product Specialist - Decipher
Blue Prism
UK based
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RE: How to set Decipher to extract value from top/bottom/left/right of header?

til.minet — Fri, 01 Apr 2022 09:49:00 GMT

Hi Ben,

we are on a fresh install of Deciper 2.1, installed just 2 weeks ago. Document Type and Batch Type are set to "German" / "de_DE | Germany" as primary language with no secondary language chosen.

Best regards
Til

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Til Minet
RPA Developer
EWE AG Germany
Oldenburg
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RE: How to set Decipher to extract value from top/bottom/left/right of header?

marius-erbert — Fri, 01 Apr 2022 10:13:00 GMT

Hello everyone,

I have experienced the same issue. The cause is the sample header. If I'm correct, then Til uses 'Land' as a sample Header. Everything up to this header is always removed from the field, even if you remove and recreate the region. I can reproduce it in Decipher 1.2 and in Decipher 2.1 (tested with Gabi).

Example:
I added two sample headers, 'Test Header' and 'Custom'.

This is a major issue in production (Ticket is on the way). If you remove the sample header, everything is fine (if you can find the value without the sample header).

Best regards
Marius

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Marius Erbert
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RE: How to set Decipher to extract value from top/bottom/left/right of header?

Ben.Lyons1 — Fri, 01 Apr 2022 12:12:00 GMT

Hi,

I'll set it up in my environment for testing, but I've never experienced this myself. I haven't done any work with German documents, so it may be an unreported issue with that language file.

Marius - Are you also using German?

Thanks

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Ben Lyons
Senior Product Specialist - Decipher
Blue Prism
UK based
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RE: How to set Decipher to extract value from top/bottom/left/right of header?

Ben.Lyons1 — Fri, 01 Apr 2022 13:05:00 GMT

Hi Both,

I've tested using one of my regular test documents in 2.1 and have the same result.

This is technically by design so that you can include the header in the region you select e.g. "Customer Name: Ben Lyons" you can select all the text and the header (Customer Name) is automatically removed.

So this issue is somewhat 'by design', but in your specific cases is not the desired function.

Marius - I'll discuss with the developers when your ticket comes in.

Til - I'll come back to you on here when we have any updates on the status.

Thanks

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Ben Lyons
Senior Product Specialist - Decipher
Blue Prism
UK based
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RE: How to set Decipher to extract value from top/bottom/left/right of header?

marius-erbert — Fri, 01 Apr 2022 13:10:00 GMT

Hi Ben,

I have tried different language settings and combinations (English/German), but the result was always the same.

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Marius Erbert
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RE: How to set Decipher to extract value from top/bottom/left/right of header?

GabrielaBaba — Mon, 04 Apr 2022 06:24:00 GMT

Good Morning Marius,

As agreed already, can you please raise the ticket, so the Decipher developers have a task to work on for a fix?

with best regards,
Gabi

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Gabriela Baba
ROM Architect
Blue Prism
Europe/Berlin
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RE: How to set Decipher to extract value from top/bottom/left/right of header?

til.minet — Mon, 04 Apr 2022 09:38:00 GMT

Hey everybody,

Thanks for your efforts in reproducing and confirming this issue. Special thanks to @MariusErbert for the conclusion.

So this issue is especially annoying for German language and a "Country"-field. Wouldn't this also massively impact the recognition of fields labelled "Street" with adjacent street names following up in English language forms? Or is it not commong to fully write the word "street" in street names in English?

If Marius doesn't react I can also raise the ticket. Would this issue be critical enough to be fixed in Decipher 2.2?

Best regards
Til

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Til Minet
RPA Developer
EWE AG Germany
Oldenburg
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RE: How to set Decipher to extract value from top/bottom/left/right of header?

marius-erbert — Mon, 04 Apr 2022 09:49:00 GMT

Hello Gabi,

I still have to wait for an internal feedback. However, the ticket will be created in the afternoon. Sorry for the delay.

Best Regards
Marius

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Marius Erbert
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RE: How to set Decipher to extract value from top/bottom/left/right of header?

GabrielaBaba — Mon, 04 Apr 2022 11:08:00 GMT

Hi Til,

I believe it is worth raising a ticket with the issue you are facing as it would be a good opportunity for the Decipher developers to test and ensure the fix is addressing also the case when the word "Land" is included in the value like in "Deutschland".

Please let me know if you want to raise your own ticket, otherwise I'll be happy to amend Marius's ticket with your case, too.

We will be happy to confirm at a later time the Decipher release the fix will be delivered with, after the Decipher developers have a chance to look first at the ticket(s).

with best regards,
Gabi

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Gabriela Baba
ROM Architect
Blue Prism
Europe/Berlin
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RE: How to set Decipher to extract value from top/bottom/left/right of header?

til.minet — Thu, 07 Apr 2022 13:26:00 GMT

Hi Gabriela,

I am totally fine if you amend my case to Marius's ticket. Did his ticket already arrive and we are fine here?

I think this is a very serious issue - apart from German cases where "Land" and "Deutschland" are concerned, what about "Street" in English where the street name ends with "street"? This behaviour could impact many cases.

Best regards
Til

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Til Minet
RPA Developer
EWE AG Germany
Oldenburg
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RE: How to set Decipher to extract value from top/bottom/left/right of header?

marius-erbert — Thu, 07 Apr 2022 14:04:00 GMT

Hello Til,

the ticket has been opened and according to Roberto Sciarra it has already reached the developers and is under investigation. I have also added a link to this thread.

Best Regards
Marius

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Marius Erbert
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