Multiple objects for one application blocking each other

[LukasVeverka]

Hello, we are currently trying to upgrade Blue Prism from 7.1.1 to 7.3.1.

We encountered a problem with our SAP CRM web application. We have multiple objects to work with the application, but they are blocking each other. We get this exception when we are trying to use actions from a second or third object:

Internal : Failed to perform step 1 in Navigate Stage 'Attach' on page 'Attach' - The requested title is associated with another instance of Blue Prism

We don't have any problems with any other application (web or other). The only workaround we found so far was to put a detach stage at the end of each action, which is ridiculous.

Can someone please explain this exception or share tips how to properly configure the objects so that they don't block each other?

[Denis__Dennehy]

Hi Lukas. 

To clarify (for myself!) I think you are saying is that you have multiple objects for the same application (in accordance with our best practices), so:
Object 1 launches or attaches without issue

Object 2 gets the error you mention when it tries to attach to the same application/window title

This makes no sense to me - maybe one of the BP people can tell us if V7 and Chrome does not allow best practices anymore.

The work around I would suggest (which does not answer the 'why') would be to put a detach process logic as soon as you stop using one of your objects, and also in your exception handling in case it comes out of the object ungracefully.  Then when you go to use your next object this error might not happen??  Not standard but maybe it will work?

[david.l.morris]

I'm trying to reproduce this, but it doesn't happen for me. You said it only happens for for the SAP CRM web app, so maybe that makes sense that it doesn't happen for me on whatever random websites I try.

Can you show some screenshots or describe various details of your objects?

I've never seen that error before of "The requested title is associated with another instance of Blue Prism", and apparently Google thinks this is the only place on all of the internet where those exact words are used in that order lol. But it seems like an error message that a developer of Blue Prism implemented so it seems likely to mean something.

I should mention that I tested this in 7.3.1. And can you confirm that you only have this issue with the one web app and that you've tested the standard multiple objects approach in other web apps in the same environment on the same machine successfully? I don't know why the specific web app would change this behavior, but it seems to be the case regardless.

[John__Carter]

Although I can't find any mention of 'The requested title is associated with another instance of Blue Prism' in the Support system, I would raise a ticket so the Support team can look into it. It sounds like something strange is happening. 

[Angelo.Carcagno]

Hello Luke<

I have added below an article of ours that outlines why the detach is needed and is a Blue Prism Best Practice to Detach from objects as you move to another. This can create various issues and by simply detaching and re attaching to each object only when in use it will help create a more stable and reliable Process.
What is the best approach for attaching to a modern browser with multiple business objects? : (blueprism.com)

[david.l.morris]

@Angelo.Carcagno I have never heard of this Blue Prism Best Practice. Edit: I've de-intensified my post here a bit. However, I am slightly in shock at the proposed best practice.

OP is suggesting that this issue occurs the moment they try to have a second object attach to the same instance of the browser, meaning that it is neither an issue of 60 second waits nor memory buildup. Blue Prism 100% is capable of doing what OP is attempting, and for 8 years I and many other Blue Prism developers have been told and have encouraged others to handle things the way OP describes. This idea of constantly detaching has not been required in the literally hundreds of browser automations that I have helped make from version 5 through version 6 into version 7.

Now, if you are saying that this is now a limitation of Blue Prism v7, then please call it such. I have played around a lot in v7 and have never once run into this issue, but it is conceivable that I have simply not done things in a way that would cause the issue.

If Blue Prism's stance on this has changed, it needs to be made clear to existing customers and not tossed into a random article with very little information surrounding the matter.

[swolonda]

Hello everybody,
I'm reacting on behalf of my colleague @LukasVeverka since we worked on this issue together.

Thanks @Angelo.Carcagno for the link, I'm as surprised as @david.l.morris by this, as we have multiple web applications with multiple objects for each that work just fine without any detaching. Plus when you have a separate object for i.e. the application top menu you would be just detaching constatly which seems ridiculous.

The issue we encountered with our web SAP CRM system using Edge is unique to this one application and (fortunately) we were not able to replicate it on any other application.

Here I post the detaching logic we implented as it might be useful for someone who bumps into same problem in the future.

1. Each object gets a simple Detach page which gets published as an action. This action is NOT called by processes.
2. Each action starts with calling attach page of it's own object, which tries to attach as ussual.

   

3. If attach fails then "Detach All" action from "Basic Actions" objects gets called.
4. This "Detach All" action calls all the detaching actions.
    
5. original objects tries to attach again.

This way we didn't need to change our existing procesess. And our developers don't need to pay special attention to detaching while working with this exceptional application.

[david.l.morris]

Hi @swolonda, if that solution works for you then that sounds great. I agree that the detaching concept is a good idea when the standard practices don't work.

I am curious about how you're handling the detaching. One reason that I have always considered the idea of detaching to be rather difficult is that I would think you'd need to handle detaching from every object instance and not just every object. Let me know if what I describe below makes sense for your scenario. I know you have already solved it so I'm genuinely just asking this for my own knowledge because at the moment I wouldn't expect it to work fully.

Let's say you have these components: Process 1, Object - Basic Actions, and Object - Some Screen.

If Process 1 calls Object - Basic Actions, then that is one instance of the Basic Actions object. Process 1 can at any time call an action that would cause the Basic Actions object to detach. No issues here.

If Process 1 calls Object - Some Screen, then that is one instance of the Object - Some Screen object. Process 1 can at any time call an action in that object to cause it to detach. No issues here either.

If Process 1 calls Object - Basic Actions and then Object - Basic Actions calls Object - Some Screen, this is a second instance of Object - Some Screen which separately has to attach/detach. If Process 1 calls Object - Basic Actions to trigger a detach on all objects, I would think that only the second of the two Object - Some Screen's instances would get detached while the first one (called directly from Process 1) would not get detached.

Are you having a different experience there?

[swolonda]

@david.l.morris 
A) the detaching is simple as possible.

B) Blue Prism may indeed start multiple instances of the same object.
This is affected by the "run mode" setting of the object. Despite of what is written in the description and documentation, it seems that if you call an object by multiple different objects or process+object (and you want to have just 1 instance) you should choose the "background" option.

At least that was the behaviour in the previous versions. But since our detaching mechanism works it probably still works that way. All the CRM objects have this mode selected.

[david.l.morris]

Hi @swolonda, thanks for explaining that. You got me looking into this obsessively. It affects how I design automations to a significant extent. If Blue Prism really does have a way to make it so only one instance is created per object, I think I would love that. The thing is that I always set my objects to background mode for utilities, and I've experienced it being that separate instances are created depending on the level it is called from.

Would you mind importing the attached release into your environment? What I did was just create some simple logic. I did this using 6.10.1 and then imported into 7.3.1, and both show the same results for me.

If Blue Prism uses the same instance for Object A regardless of whether it is called from the process level or from Object B, then the two circled data items should have the same value at the end. Take a look at it and let me know if you have the same results. I feel like we may not be talking about exactly the same scenario, and I'm hoping this will shed some light. I may not be testing this the way you'd expect or maybe there is some other difference.

I can't overstate how much I would love it if I can make each object have only one instance. 😃

I thought I could attach a file, so instead I'm putting the contents of my .bprelease file into here. You'd just need to create a file called like blahblah.bprelease and put this stuff inside it, save, and import into BP.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<bpr:release xmlns:bpr="http://www.blueprism.co.uk/product/release">
    <bpr:name>6.10.1_Dave_Instance_Test_2024.10.01_1128ET</bpr:name>
    <bpr:release-notes />
    <bpr:created>2024-10-01 15:29:30Z</bpr:created>
    <bpr:package-id>317</bpr:package-id>
    <bpr:package-name>6.10.1_Dave_Instance_Test</bpr:package-name>
    <bpr:user-created-by>X2DMORRI@southernco.com</bpr:user-created-by>
    <bpr:contents count="5">
        <process id="34211663-6735-4820-8911-b6a0ef596cb0" name="Dave's Instance Test Process" published="true" xmlns="http://www.blueprism.co.uk/product/process"><process name="Dave's Instance Test Process" version="1.0" bpversion="6.10.1.35171" narrative="Tests Object instances in Blue Prism to see if Background mode objects use the same instance or not. Object A is called directly from the process, and then Object B is called from the process and Object B calls Object A. If there is only one instance of Object A, then the values in the last 2 data items should be equal." byrefcollection="true"><view><camerax>0</camerax><cameray>21</cameray><zoom version="2">1.25</zoom></view><preconditions /><endpoint narrative="" /><stage stageid="f418ce0b-e360-47e4-bafe-b69d24a4916e" name="Start" type="Start"><display x="15" y="-105" /><onsuccess>d01303a4-4200-4009-8061-59b144ad8753</onsuccess></stage><stage stageid="abbddf8a-3af1-4e6d-97bc-0682c6c74583" name="End" type="End"><display x="15" y="165" /></stage><stage stageid="01a0dd88-3fb4-42bc-a69a-95cfe4be5a04" name="Stage1" type="ProcessInfo"><display x="-195" y="-105" w="150" h="90" /></stage><stage stageid="d01303a4-4200-4009-8061-59b144ad8753" name="Dave's Instance Test Object A::Get Value" type="Action"><display x="15" y="-60" w="90" h="30" /><outputs><output type="text" name="Global Data Item" friendlyname="Global Data Item" stage="Direct call to Object A - Before Set Value" /></outputs><onsuccess>dc94b72d-bd87-45aa-a92a-8f819d397073</onsuccess><resource object="Dave's Instance Test Object A" action="Get Value" /></stage><stage stageid="8c08fbc9-d3ab-4ed3-8e19-dc3fecadd34a" name="Direct call to Object A - Before Set Value" type="Data"><display x="180" y="-60" w="150" h="30" /><datatype>text</datatype><initialvalue /><private /><alwaysinit /></stage><stage stageid="c46744f8-08e1-4ffa-b4dd-a2438aceec86" name="Dave's Instance Test Object A::Set Value" type="Action"><display x="15" y="30" w="90" h="30" /><onsuccess>e4118abf-979d-4f2c-b2c2-cc9953b9d25b</onsuccess><resource object="Dave's Instance Test Object A" action="Set Value" /></stage><stage stageid="dc94b72d-bd87-45aa-a92a-8f819d397073" name="Dave's Instance Test Object B::Call Set Value in Object A" type="Action"><display x="15" y="-15" w="90" h="30" /><outputs><output type="text" name="Value From Object A" friendlyname="Value From Object A" narrative="n/a" stage="Call to Object B - Before Set Value" /></outputs><onsuccess>c46744f8-08e1-4ffa-b4dd-a2438aceec86</onsuccess><resource object="Dave's Instance Test Object B" action="Call Get Value in Object A" /></stage><stage stageid="4b257a23-9729-48f7-b1b9-1e71f79a8594" name="Call to Object B - Before Set Value" type="Data"><display x="180" y="-15" w="150" h="30" /><datatype>text</datatype><initialvalue /><private /><alwaysinit /></stage><stage stageid="e4118abf-979d-4f2c-b2c2-cc9953b9d25b" name="Dave's Instance Test Object A::Get Value" type="Action"><display x="15" y="75" w="90" h="30" /><outputs><output type="text" name="Global Data Item" friendlyname="Global Data Item" stage="Direct call to Object A - After Set Value" /></outputs><onsuccess>efa3b1e2-5f3e-49a7-a713-d40c7253cf85</onsuccess><resource object="Dave's Instance Test Object A" action="Get Value" /></stage><stage stageid="efa3b1e2-5f3e-49a7-a713-d40c7253cf85" name="Dave's Instance Test Object B::Call Set Value in Object A" type="Action"><display x="15" y="120" w="90" h="30" /><outputs><output type="text" name="Value From Object A" friendlyname="Value From Object A" narrative="n/a" stage="Call to Object B - After Set Value" /></outputs><onsuccess>abbddf8a-3af1-4e6d-97bc-0682c6c74583</onsuccess><resource object="Dave's Instance Test Object B" action="Call Get Value in Object A" /></stage><stage stageid="f21ca263-0402-41a9-bf56-f23f8540f7d1" name="Call to Object B - After Set Value" type="Data"><display x="180" y="120" w="150" h="30" /><datatype>text</datatype><initialvalue /><private /><alwaysinit /></stage><stage stageid="914e195d-b717-438d-a15f-f35e079e163d" name="Direct call to Object A - After Set Value" type="Data"><display x="180" y="75" w="150" h="30" /><datatype>text</datatype><initialvalue /><private /><alwaysinit /></stage></process></process>
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This is an optional page where you might choose to perform some finalisation (or "cleanup") tasks as your business object is closed down.

The cleanup action will be called automatically immediately after closing your business object at the end of a business process.

You will not be able to call this action from a business process, nor will it be called at any other time than before the disposal of the business object.</narrative><display x="-180" y="60" w="180" h="230" /></stage><stage stageid="06c97cf0-a0f2-41bc-875f-838b7a4e3280" name="" type="Note"><narrative>Initialise Page

This is an optional page where you might choose to perform some initialisation tasks after your business object is loaded.

The initialise action will be called automatically immediately after loading your business object.

You will not be able to call this action from a business process, nor will it be called at any other time than after the creation of the object.</narrative><display x="-180" y="60" w="180" h="230" /></stage><stage stageid="0603e93a-70d0-4840-9189-0da6fdaa0ca0" name="Set Initialise page Global Data Item" type="Calculation"><subsheetid>eec3ed7f-8f14-40e9-957a-d4c205bf43f7</subsheetid><loginhibit /><display x="15" y="-60" /><onsuccess>4ad2446d-614e-4434-b367-a64ab7add9d5</onsuccess><calculation expression="&quot;Value set from Set Value action&quot;" stage="Global Data Item" /></stage><stage stageid="9e239a67-f3a3-4fe8-a9e4-bbfb2445bdd8" name="Global Data Item" type="Data"><display x="165" y="-105" w="180" h="30" /><datatype>text</datatype><initialvalue xml:space="preserve">Initial Value</initialvalue></stage><stage stageid="b16403a7-3346-476d-b42c-9213f0be54dd" name="Get Value" type="SubSheetInfo"><subsheetid>755765ad-e929-4551-b24f-d3711663e279</subsheetid><narrative>Retrieves the value from the global data item on the initialise page</narrative><display x="-195" y="-105" w="150" h="90" /></stage><stage stageid="67dbb1ec-36ae-46bb-bbfd-0440324c6fec" name="Start" type="Start"><subsheetid>755765ad-e929-4551-b24f-d3711663e279</subsheetid><loginhibit /><preconditions><condition narrative="n/a" /></preconditions><postconditions><condition narrative="n/a" /></postconditions><display x="15" y="-105" /><onsuccess>31f105bc-604b-402d-81a4-8a04a9b6b9ce</onsuccess></stage><stage stageid="31f105bc-604b-402d-81a4-8a04a9b6b9ce" name="End" type="End"><subsheetid>755765ad-e929-4551-b24f-d3711663e279</subsheetid><loginhibit /><display x="15" y="90" /><outputs><output type="text" name="Global Data Item" stage="Global Data Item" /></outputs></stage></process></object>
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This is an optional page where you might choose to perform some finalisation (or "cleanup") tasks as your business object is closed down.

The cleanup action will be called automatically immediately after closing your business object at the end of a business process.

You will not be able to call this action from a business process, nor will it be called at any other time than before the disposal of the business object.</narrative><display x="-180" y="60" w="180" h="230" /></stage><stage stageid="8007e687-78a7-4075-a2b9-47fcab81b2bf" name="Note2" type="Note"><narrative>Initialise Page

This is an optional page where you might choose to perform some initialisation tasks after your business object is loaded.

The initialise action will be called automatically immediately after loading your business object.

You will not be able to call this action from a business process, nor will it be called at any other time than after the creation of the object.</narrative><display x="-180" y="60" w="180" h="230" /></stage><stage stageid="8953bee9-456a-41e6-892c-f90ae6bf7967" name="Dave's Instance Test Object A::Get Value" type="Action"><subsheetid>9cfe246e-4ae9-4666-9483-5ec17cf7b264</subsheetid><loginhibit onsuccess="true" /><display x="15" y="-60" /><outputs><output type="text" name="Global Data Item" friendlyname="Global Data Item" stage="Value From Object A" /></outputs><onsuccess>d9aa050c-e7e6-4496-b12b-39c39e6019ee</onsuccess><resource object="Dave's Instance Test Object A" action="Get Value" /></stage><stage stageid="2ec539b0-56d8-4771-93dd-bcbf9650d3d9" name="Value From Object A" type="Data"><subsheetid>9cfe246e-4ae9-4666-9483-5ec17cf7b264</subsheetid><display x="-195" y="-15" w="150" h="30" /><datatype>text</datatype><initialvalue /><private /><alwaysinit /></stage></process></object>
        <process-group id="8095d263-b254-4f4c-af75-7195482b4c56" name="Default" isDefaultGroup="True" xmlns="http://www.blueprism.co.uk/product/process-group">
            <members>
                <process id="34211663-6735-4820-8911-b6a0ef596cb0" />
            </members>
        </process-group>
        <object-group id="3b7ef422-ce02-4774-a0ac-e55a715e5469" name="Default" isDefaultGroup="True" xmlns="http://www.blueprism.co.uk/product/object-group">
            <members>
                <object id="18ae4fdb-532d-46f8-8cf6-30d3e4ba67af" />
                <object id="13d596c9-7c20-4fcc-b5b9-817b42396a8f" />
            </members>
        </object-group>
    </bpr:contents>
</bpr:release>